ARTIST: Cindy Wang
Interview & Text: Luxi
DATE: 2024.04
The Trinity of an Asian Gallerist in the U.S.
Interview with Cindy Wang, Owner of The Scholart Selection and Bridge Arts Foundation
Asian American Gallerist, Cross-cultural artists, Inter-generational collection
Introduction
We met Cindy Wang before the opening of her gallery’s most recent exhibition on artist Xu Jin, but before that we have been a regular listener to her Podcast and video channel on arts. To know
her voice and her opinion before eventually setting feet on the physical gallery is a process that imitates Cindy’s itinerary and multiple identities in the art industry for the past two
decades. Cindy started as a host and a producer for one of the earliest and most known art-focused radio programs in Mainland, China. Ten years later, after moving to the U.S., she has taken the art-focused radio programs
with her and expanded it to a multimedia program that contains podcast, long interviews and short videos on the social platform.
The Scholart Selection – Cindy Wang’s physical gallery whose name comes from “The Scholart”, the art-focused radio programs she’s been producing for more than a decade – is located next to the old San Gabriel
Mission Church in Los Angeles. And in the gallery we had the interview in person. On that day, as in every other day for the past 250 years, the loaded bell tolled steadily from the church of
stone, brick and mortar, summoning patience and perseverance for the “new land” of California. California was then a new land, and is now still a new land for an Asian gallerist. In this
interview, we discussed with Cindy Wang her story of becoming an Asian gallerist in the U.S., her own debates and hesitation around the Asian-ness in her and in the gallery, and, practically
enough, her advice for aspiring gallerists, artists who want to explore a new land.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
From a Producer to a Gallerist
AYA: Hi Cindy, thanks for joining us. In all your previous podcast episodes with artists or other peers in the art industry, you have always been performing the duty of an interviewer. We listen to your opinions but are not very well aware of the stories behind it. Can you share with our readers how you’ve come to be an Asian gallerist, to manage a gallery in Los Angeles?
CINDY: For sure. A brief introduction about myself: I was born in Beijing, and in the early years I was an interior design student at college. After graduation I very accidentally joined the
media industry, and because of my arts background I have had the chance to host and produce an art-focused radio program. The series went live on BRTV in 2013 as an independent copyright production, and
after I moved to the U.S. I have decided to take the series with me and expanded it to an all-channel, multi-media series. As of present the series includes a Podcast channel, a video channel,
and miscellaneous interviews and written articles. It was not until several years later I started The Scholart Selection – the physical gallery we’re in right now, and the video channel also
gradually became a combination of long video interview and short video discussions to explain the concepts in the art industry in a more digestible way to the public. Many readers may know me
through my channel The Scholart but remain comparatively unfamiliar with my gallery The Scholart Selection.
I’ve got asked the question a lot: how did I become a gallerist in the U.S., and I would attribute a major part of it to my previous years in the art world, where I have experienced many
diverse roles. I worked as a producer of the art series for more than a decade, and the series has taken us to different parts of the world, has entailed a wide range of professional
discussions on classical arts, traditional Chinese arts, and art history. And it is also thanks to the series I have acquainted many top-tier artists and best peers in the industry, with whom
I am very lucky to collaborating for The Scholart Selection’s exhibitions. And all the years, I’ve been a collector as well. My collection is primarily composed of contemporary arts, and my
husband is more inclined to traditional arts, antiques and calligraphy, which makes us a balanced, comprehensive collector couple. Because of all the layers of my identity, gradually people
around would come to me and ask for collecting advice, my perspective on specific work or artist, or simply to know the procedures of buying and selling arts. And I do enjoy the process of
sharing my knowledge, my research, and my opinions, of discussing arts with those that share my passion, so the idea has come that I should open a gallery. My passion for arts has culminated
to the desire of wanting to face the artworks as much as possible, and I think all my previous experience and the different aspects of my identity can all perfectly gather under the umbrella
of a gallerist.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
The thing I like about a physical gallery is that it allows me and the viewers to be face to face with the artworks – something that’s not always possible in my previous work. Our conversation about arts does not come from and cannot stay in an ethereal vacuum; it has to unfold with the presence of the work per se. And on the other hand, social media is significantly reshaping the landscape of the art industry, and since I do have experience and expertise in this domain, these skills are highly translatable to the daily essential work of a gallerist. Therefore, it is basically for these reasons I have come to this role, taken upon myself the challenges of a gallerist.
AYA: With this being said, what aspect of a gallerist’s work has significantly set the role apart from any other roles like a producer, a collector?
CINDY: To put it in a very practical way, I think the primary difference is that the gallerist has the responsibility to give an exhibition sufficient marketing. This may be part of the job
for a producer, a collector, or an art reviewer, but it is never as fundamental and necessary as it is for a gallerist. Afterall, gallery is an art business that requires some true skills and
true sells. As a gallerist you have to choose the good artists for exhibitions, you have to put the right works to the right hand. And these are also an exclusive requirement for the
gallerists but not the producer. As a producer all I care about is to present quality content, and as for my art foundation I can also focus solely on helping the Asian and local communities,
on hosting activities that are as diverse and inclusive as possible. None of the works involve a responsibility to the market, but that’s not the case for a gallerist. The art world is an
interlock system and being part of it means that you have a bi-directional responsibility both to the upstream and downstream, which is basically to the market, to the collector, and to the
artist.
In retrospect of contemporary art history at large, gallerists have to a very large extent influence or even shape the art landscape and taste of their own age. And far before modern and
contemporary art, the Medici family, who were both collectors and prototypal gallerists, had also exemplified to us the responsibilities we have today. Till these days I still think the major
and also the hardest part of my work as a gallerist is to help artists sell their works to more collectors, to the right collectors, and to help collectors to see more works and more
possibilities. All of this will contribute to form a good ecosystem for the art of our age, and to activate the circulation.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: To many people’s surprise, instead of the promising Art District and Melrose Avenue, you’ve chosen San Gabriel Valley in Los Angeles as the home for The Scholart Selection. What are the reasons behind this decision?
CINDY: There are actually several reasons, about my own vision for the gallery, and about the demographical features of the San Gabriel Valley. As aforementioned when I moved to the U.S. from
Beijing, I have taken my art-focused radio programs with me. At that time I wanted my media and gallery career to be more global but also local. Los Angeles is a multi-cultural metropolitan, and its local
is basically global. When it comes to the art industry, Los Angeles has its foundation and its prospect, but as for now it is still not as mature and well-rounded as the East Coast. So there’s
the potential and the room; the seats around the conference table are not yet fully occupied, and it provides the essential space for a gallery’s growth. For those readers who may not be
familiar with the demographical distribution of Los Angeles: most of the Chinese immigrants reside in the East part of the city, and westward from Pasadena to the beach neighborhoods the
residents are more Latino, White, and immigrants from Korea, Japan and South Asia. Where the gallery is situated – the San Gabriel Valley – is at the intersection of West and East Los Angeles
at large, and the community here is also comprised of different races and ethnicities: neighborhood that can be traced back to the early days of Los Angeles’ history, and new immigrants that
have come to the country only in the past two decades.
After coming to the decision of opening the gallery at San Gabriel Valley, I have also made a lot of effort to blend in with the local community. We have founded a nonprofit foundation called
Bridge Arts Foundation. The foundation shares the same physical space with The Scholar Selection, and it holds free group exhibitions and art fairs for the local community and independent
artists. I think to support local artists in their early careers is an important part of a community’s public affairs, and as the name of the foundation tells, it bridges the gallery with San
Gabriel Valley.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: We know that Cindy you have a very solid background in art media, and have been involved in all the different forms of art media from more than a decade ago. The work of gallerist, too, entails a lot of presence on the media. What do you think is the difference between the present art media and the art media back at the time you were a producer?
CINDY: When I was first a producer of the art-focused radio program, it was still the prime days of traditional media. But as of right now newspaper, broadcast, and TV, the three major categories of
traditional media, are having an unprecedentedly hard time in the history. And my career happens to overlap with the dramatic transformation. My honest feeling is that what I’m doing right now
with the media is nothing like what I used to do. The new, interactive social media are mainly what we are working with now.
What’s special about the new medium is that it is essentially interactive. Different from the “I speak, you listen” mode of traditional media, on the social platform everyone can speak up, can
voice their own opinions, and the exclusive distribution of public credibility is greatly challenged with this schema. In the age of TV, I would be proud in but also limit myself to discussing
serious arts only. I needed my guests as well as my opinions to be fairly authoritative. I would refrain from discussing topics that were still debatable, and limit my speakers to staff from
the museums, the top foundations. If it’s about auction, the speaker had to be from the famous auction houses; and if it concerned art history, the ideal speaker would be a renowned college
professor. But more than a decade later, where we are standing right now, things simply don’t operate this way. In arts the authority no longer stays within certain institutions but is
dispersed among the public. Everyone has more confidence and belief in their own taste and own judgement, and underneath there’s a deep desire to form and maintain a taste system of your own.
In situations like this what the audience need is no longer an authoritative voice informing them what’s good art, but only an objective, professional discussion with dense information and
knowledge to facilitate the taste-forming. And all the while, it also has to be delivered as lightweight, digestible fragments so that the content won’t intimidate people.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
I think it is in this context there gradually comes a group of “professional arts KOI” on the social platform. They share with the audience the intellectual elements that used to construct their authority in the old time, and make videos, podcasts that are at the core very similar to the long articles and interviews they used to write. I consider myself part of this group, to explain the professional art world to lay audience in a highly understandable way. And apart from the transformation in media, another reason I started doing this is that I know there are many potential art collectors out there, especially art enthusiasts. They have a very large budget, and a strong desire to start a collection of their own, but art world, as we all know, is very hard to navigate. They do not know how to start, and the top-tier galleries are always above there, extremely inaccessible. Every inquiry they send out will be replied with a waitlist or “already sold”. For a potential collector who has not started yet or is at the early stage, all the myths and norms can be very discouraging, daunting, and easily leading to self-doubt. All I want my channel to do – that’s both for my own channel and the social media of my gallery – I want to be able to discuss it openly and honestly, to answer questions about the art dealing process, and to demystify the superficial threshold about formality.
The Surroundings of an Asian Gallerist
AYA: Is there any special focus for The Scholart Selection’s program? E.g. specific historical period, country or race?
CINDY: That’s a good question. Just like what we have just discussed about why I’ve chosen San Gabriel Valley, Los Angeles as the home for my gallery, when the gallery is selecting the artists it represents the local cultural atmosphere and the identity of the gallery are two major factors to consider. All the same, I want to be global and also have pride in my Asian identity. For an Asian gallery in the U.S. we are more focused on Asian artists, though not exclusively. The collectors we work with also more or less have an Asian background. This may sound like a very clear, zoomed-in range of focus, but it’s actually more complicated than it seems. What artists should I choose, what standards should I have consistently – these fundamental questions are not yet solved just with the focus set. Though I’m working primarily with Asian artists and collectors, inside the group there are infinite subgroups with different or even warring opinions. The first generation immigrants, the second-gen, or more accurately there’s also the one-point-five-generation. Everyone moved to the country at a different age, everyone is taking with themselves a different cultural memory and view of arts. To understand the complexity I’m working with is basically to understand the complexity of the immigration group: their difference, their commonality. It is on the basis of this that I conceptualize the program for The Scholart Selection.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: Based on your observation, what’s the general difference between the collections of different generations of Asian immigrants?
CINDY: Just in case the readers are not familiar with what the different generations of immigrants mean: immigrants like me who were born outside the U.S. and only moved to the U.S. after
their adulthood are considered the first generation; in contrast, second generation immigrants were born in the States, received complete American education. And the more complicated case is
with the 1.5-gen immigrants like my children. My two kids were born in Beijing, and respectively moved to LA with me at the age of 7 and 4. In this case they are considered the 1.5-gen. Of
course the difference we are to talk about will be a generalization based on my observation. It might be representative, but since art is essentially a very personal and individual business,
this observation is only to gauge a rough direction.
The first-generation immigrants tend to be more influenced by Chinese contemporary view of arts, which adores figurative arts and the works one can easily understand, or at least not hard to
decipher. For the 1.5-gen, probably because of their own life experience, there might be confusion and crisis surrounding the identity. The questions about “who am I”, “what is My culture”
also penetrate their choice of arts. Like many immigrant parents, I too have the expectation for my kids that they can smoothly switch between the Chinese and American culture. And their
education environment also emphasizes the duality and co-existence of the two cultures. However, to be honest, it is even hard for an adult to live with two cultures, let alone the kids and
adolescents whose identities are still very fluid and unstable. They will have the inner-debate and hesitation, a tough process to decide how to maintain and to what extent to maintain the
culture of their own. Many of the 1.5-gen immigrant collectors I have worked with desire to find in arts a resonance, an articulation of this hesitation, an expression of the “in-between”
status. I think I can never answer this question perfectly because one’s choice of arts reflects their most immediate concern, their deepest desire, the most painful trauma, and the collective
memory. To be a collector is as self-exposing as an artist, if not more. And to understand that will always be an on-going work for a gallerist.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: In our previous interviews, we have had the chance to talk with several more Asian gallerists around the world, and it seems that everyone tends to have a very different view regarding whether to reveal and express their Asian identity in the gallery. We’d like to know what’s your take on that?
CINDY: This is a question I have thought a lot, and I know I have made the Asian focus of my program sounds smooth and self-evident, but it’s actually not an easy answer for me. I believe to a
large extent arts can be about ideology, and ideology is given birth by a cultural context. And I also believe that arts and viewers should resonate. For every ethnic group, every age, the
resonance is essentially a resonance between two beings, two lives. It is because of these two believes, I do not intentionally hide the Asian elements in my cultural background and my life.
My understanding of arts demands that I remain honest and sincere towards my own background. Without this honesty and sincerity towards the self and the outside world, an artwork can be
technically perfect, can be impeccable, but it will be just like an AI-engendered work; it will be kept in an empathetic vacuum, a-historic, a-humanistic.
I choose not to hide or even emphasize the Asian background of my gallery is not an effort of saying only people with the same background can understand each other, can speak the same art
language. I never think it’s the case. To illuminate one’s own background is not the same as pinpointing the boundary of understanding; quite contrary, it is more like extending a tenacle
beyond the boundary, hoping for sincere connection with people and works from different background. I think this sincere tenacle is the only thing I can cling to to pull myself beyond the
boundary. I am an Asian, and I am a woman, I am an immigrant, these things won’t change, and my gallery will definitely look different from a gallery managed by a white male. I want there to
more Asian artists in the market, more Asian collectors voicing their own opinions, and if so, if the desire is completely decent, why should I hide the Asian-ness in my own identity?
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: Being a host for an art-focused radio program means you always have to be present, to be the show’s image and trademark. When it comes to the gallery, do you think your image is also omnipresent?
CINDY: I do not have any idolizing desire to tie the image of the gallery with myself. I may be the one to start the gallery, the program, and many ideas, but to do it first doesn’t mean I am or should be the only one in doing this. This is a gallery, and a gallery is based on collective decision rather than dominated by my own taste for arts. An individual’s vision is always limited, no matter how experienced the individual may be. I keep reminding myself that I am no longer a young gallerist, and people born in the 70s, 80s, 90s and the millennials all have their own propensity and value. A gallerist is different from a collector; it is hard to use your taste as the only parameter for decision. Sometimes when working with works from the millennial artists, I may find it hard to understand the work immediately, and this is when I will go to my team, a team comprised of many young people. They are always very helpful to guide me understand those works with their own professional knowledge vision, and in circumstances like this I always listen to their opinions. I hope what my gallery is bringing to the market is not simply a taste of my own, but a selection of the whole team, a highly selective choice of works. As a gallerist, you may have your own field of focus, and that’s totally fine. But if the field of the gallerist becomes the field of the gallery, you may be narrowing down the future for yourself. A gallerist as a person is not the soul of a gallery. It is the choice of direction and of theme that determines, and it requires a far wider vision than that of an individual.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
A Note to Emerging Global Artists, Gallerists and Collectors
AYA: Since we’re on the topic of supporting Asian artists, we would also like to hear some professional advice from Cindy. We know that right now many Chinese artists would like to find a
larger, global market, but there seems to be a lot of objective difficulties, e.g. the different social platforms used in China and the U.S., the different art institutions and education
systems. All the differences make it hard for a U.S. gallery to understand and evaluate the achievements of a Chinese artist. In a market like this, there are even new art agencies that are
specifically aimed at expanding the oversea market for artists.
What do you think is the key difficulty here? And can you give any suggestion to Chinese artists who aspire to enter the U.S. art market?
CINDY: First, we have to admit that it will be exceptionally hard if an artist’s education and exhibition background covers only Mainland, China. There are a lot of specific differences and
gaps, but I think most fundamentally the difficulty derives from a different system of art language and art context. This is the key factor that determines whether a work can be accepted by
viewers from a different cultural background. Modern and contemporary art was born in the Europe, and it has not been long since Chinese artists first started working with the contemporary
style, theme, and techniques. A lot of media, materials and techniques are still fairly new to the whole art ecosystem. I believe, and I keep telling my American colleagues that many artists
trained in art academies in China have very substantial foundation – far beyond the majority you can find elsewhere. But when it comes to the conceptualization, the translatability, and the
choice of perspective for their expression, I think it may still take some time for them to think these through.
I really want more Chinese artists can have a chance to exhibit outside China, and the non-profit foundation I’ve mentioned also has seasonal open call and group exhibitions to make this more
accessible. I truly believe that to in order to have a solid world view, you first have to gain a solid look at the world. It is very important for artists to let more possibilities enter your
vision as it brings vitality and life into your work. To cross boundaries can be hard, and in the U.S. if you’re from the West Coast and want to have an exhibition in the East Coast, it can be
hard as well. There’s still the need for crossing, for going beyond your native land. A lot of research is required before entering the U.S. market – what are the trends of galleries, of
museums, of collectors; and a lot of thinking and deliberation are also required – how to say what you want to say, how to make your art language translatable.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: The translation of art language – does it mean that an artist should trade their local language for a more global language in order to be understood more widely?
CINDY: No, I think an artist has the total right to maintain the localness of his/her art language, but it’s just as the tenacle I’ve mentioned – the artwork should be local, but not a closed
system that defies being global. Arts and artists alike, everyone has their own cultural context, and no one should be required to involuntarily walk out of that context. That is isolation. I
used to discuss this with a senior Chinese artist, and like many Chinese artists of his age, all his works, all his themes came from the tumultuous decades he’s been through, the Chinese
society has been through. There are many idiosyncratic phenomena happening in China for the past few decades, and many of them may sound alien to a collector outside China, or at least require
some preliminary research.
But on top of the practical need of being a market success, art first and foremost has a responsibility to record and reflect on history – this is something that cannot be compromised. Like a
plant, an artist has his/her own land, own surroundings. To require an artist to be transplanted onto another land, to work as a foreign observer, this can be a perspective but not widely
applicable to everyone. You do not have to renounce your land and surroundings completely. The key is to find the contact point, the point that can connect your surroundings with other
surroundings. It is more like opening up the windows and doors, instead of abandoning the house completely.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
AYA: Can you also give some tips to Asian gallerists who want to open a space in the U.S.?
CINDY: First and foremost, you need to be passionate enough. It’s passion, not just mild interest. An interest may last long in daily life, but it is not sufficient to sustain a business as hard as an art gallery for over a year. A gallerist’s life may appear fancy on the social media, and indeed the good part is enjoyable. But apart from the ethereal discussion on arts, apart from socializing with cool people, there’s also an extensive amount of hard labor and repetitive work. I still think the intensity of a gallerist’s work is underestimated: the numerous studio visits throughout the year, the careful moving around of the artworks, exhibition installations. These works summon not only your intellectual contribution but also a physical commitment.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
Second, you must be financially strong. Art gallery is not a business like the restaurant, the clothing store; the chances are simply very low for a gallery to achieve revenue in the first few years. We are talking about a timespan for years, and before making revenue the gallery has to patiently grow with its artists. It’s a slow business, a business that does not promise a good cash flow at the start. Moreover, every aspect of a gallery’s work, from daily management of the team to marketing, can be very costly. You have to be financially strong to survive the first few years. During the difficult years, if you’re not financially prepared, you may be faced with a situation where you have to compromise your program and your vision to have exhibitions you do not sincerely appreciate, or to have paid exhibitions. This is a very irresponsible move for the young and emerging artists, and it also significantly damages the gallery’s reputation. At the end, it will drag the gallery into negative loop.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
Thirdly, it is important to be open-minded and keep learning new things. The art industry is constantly filled with new talents and new ideas, and that’s one of the most wonderful things about working as a gallerist. However, you have to have enough vision and training to be able to grow with these new things. As an art enthusiast, you can stay in your comfort zone and remain knowledgeable on only a few things, but working as a gallerist the narrowed focus will not prepare you to work professionally. It will be very hard to give your artists and collectors any helpful advice and objective evaluation if you do not have an idea of the bigger picture, of the new trend. Of course, everyone in the industry has their own preference and specialty, and that’s how all of us started off in the first place. Nonetheless, as an Asian gallerist working in the U.S. the population you can work with can be smaller than that in the Mainland, and this means you have to expand yourself to be able to work with more collectors. I’ve been constantly learning new art concepts, including the AI-related arts, the new media, and the curiosity has never faded since the first day I entered the industry.
AYA: The last question comes from the young readers on our platform. They would like to know can you start build up your art collection at an early age?
CINDY: Absolutely yes, and in my opinion, as early as possible. I have written an article discussing the difference between old money and new money’s art collection, and the most ostensible difference is the starting age. For new money, most of them are first-generation entrepreneur, collecting art won’t start until they have achieved certain success and fame in their career, and their descendants are very likely to follow the same pattern for at least two generations. On the contrary, for families that have engaged with art collection for a long time, seeing and collecting arts become part of the young generation’s upbringing at a very early age. It becomes part of the living environment, and it fosters a longtime and deep relationship. It is very crucial to get close with artworks from an early age, and to get close means to have a relationship with arts beyond the museums and the pamphlet, beyond the public, standardized, and transient relationship. There are certain ways of thinking that will only occur after you’ve the idea of collecting in your mind, because colleting yields a very alluring possibility that the artwork can belong to you.
Image courtesy of The Scholart Selection
I very common misconception about collecting is that it has to start with a large budget, and the threshold can be intimidatingly high, and also that it is only the works that are already high-priced are worth collecting. But I do not think so. The building up of an art collection is a substantial process that requires years but can start modest. It can simply be replacing the luxury goods with a small piece of sculpture, of antiques of your kids’ own choice for their kid’s birthday. The sense of ownership with motivate them to know more about the artist’s biography, about the creative intention. This is a very good starting point to learn art history and art in general. As the kids grow old, the art works grow with them – they endow their new feelings and understandings to the artworks, and the modest artworks in early years may also become more valuable as the artist’s career advances. Therefore, I sincerely think art collecting can and should start early.
Past Exhibitions at The Scholart Selection and Bridge Arts Foundation
Group Exhibition: Seeking Light, April 20 – May 19/2024
Xu Jin: Floating Life, Wandering Dream, March 3 – April 7/2024
Zhang Miao: Time in Space, January 20 – February 18/2024
Group Exhibition: Beyond Borders, October 14 – December 31/2023
Ukiyo-e Appreciation, May 21 – July/23/2023
Charles Christopher Hill: Objects of Contemplation, February 25 – March 26/2023
